advanced timing
02-03-2005, 10:25 PM
#61
Originally posted by rivneo1
Dont forget that we still got Iridium Spark plugs that we can use ,and those are more heat tolerant than platinum.
Dont forget that we still got Iridium Spark plugs that we can use ,and those are more heat tolerant than platinum.
02-03-2005, 10:47 PM
#62
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Socal, 909/626
Posts: 6,587
well, quoting that article in the pic you attached:
"Increasing ignition timing past specified setting results in a drastic increase in spark plug temperature..."
- plug temp, not magnitude of spark
"...with increased chance of detonation or preignition..."
- I think we can all agree that this is not good
"... Performance increase is considerably LESS."
- *cough.
OKay, I now offer these quotes from the NGK website, tech section:
"The temperature of the spark plug's firing end must be kept low enough to prevent pre-ignition, but high enough to prevent fouling."
Therefore if the spark plug temperature is too high (which can be caused by advanced timing) then, like your article - pre-ignition can occur.
"Advancing ignition timing by 10° causes tip temperature to increase by approx. 70°-100° C"
As we just stated, spark plug temperature increase beyond normal heat ranges is bad.
"A spark plug's heat range has no relationship to the actual voltage transferred though the spark plug. "
Therefore the temperature of the plug has no affect on how "hot" the spark is coming out of the plug.
The last part is why I kept arguing against the connection between plug temperature and spark intensity.
Granted - timing advance does work on some cars (I agree with how it works on Honda's since we used to advance timing on our Honda friends back in the 1/4 mile days) but remember the KA is a torquey, low rpm muscle-type of engine, not a high revving small displacement Honda engine.
BTW I've been running Iridium (HKS Super Fire) since my first tune-up on the car, with stock 20 degreee timing, and I'm more than satisfied with how the engine runs and pulls up the twisties
"Increasing ignition timing past specified setting results in a drastic increase in spark plug temperature..."
- plug temp, not magnitude of spark
"...with increased chance of detonation or preignition..."
- I think we can all agree that this is not good
"... Performance increase is considerably LESS."
- *cough.
OKay, I now offer these quotes from the NGK website, tech section:
"The temperature of the spark plug's firing end must be kept low enough to prevent pre-ignition, but high enough to prevent fouling."
Therefore if the spark plug temperature is too high (which can be caused by advanced timing) then, like your article - pre-ignition can occur.
"Advancing ignition timing by 10° causes tip temperature to increase by approx. 70°-100° C"
As we just stated, spark plug temperature increase beyond normal heat ranges is bad.
"A spark plug's heat range has no relationship to the actual voltage transferred though the spark plug. "
Therefore the temperature of the plug has no affect on how "hot" the spark is coming out of the plug.
The last part is why I kept arguing against the connection between plug temperature and spark intensity.
Granted - timing advance does work on some cars (I agree with how it works on Honda's since we used to advance timing on our Honda friends back in the 1/4 mile days) but remember the KA is a torquey, low rpm muscle-type of engine, not a high revving small displacement Honda engine.
BTW I've been running Iridium (HKS Super Fire) since my first tune-up on the car, with stock 20 degreee timing, and I'm more than satisfied with how the engine runs and pulls up the twisties
02-04-2005, 11:43 AM
#63
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Claksville ,Tennesse
Posts: 228
Originally posted by l2aine
BTW I've been running Iridium (HKS Super Fire) since my first tune-up on the car, with stock 20 degreee timing, and I'm more than satisfied with how the engine runs and pulls up the twisties
BTW I've been running Iridium (HKS Super Fire) since my first tune-up on the car, with stock 20 degreee timing, and I'm more than satisfied with how the engine runs and pulls up the twisties
02-04-2005, 12:48 PM
#64
Alright guy's now it is time for the TRUTH......
Raine is right about everything..........
I had misconstrude the graph, for what it was...........
The graph basically states that this is the temp rating set for ALL oem distributors. All distributors being set at 0degress, impeading anything further than the 8degress is extremely dangerous. Infact anything after 4 degress becomes very risky.
If it weren't for my "botch platinums" that can handle a higher temp rating to "knock and ping" I would of severly blown the head to my ride, from pre ignition............
DO NOT follow my recomendations of 13degress!!!!!!!!!
This is prompted as extremely bad mechanical error and calculation and I would feel extremely bad if some one was to blow a gasket or damage the valve train even.........
Stay within the recomended 3 to 4degress as recomended, and DO NOT move to 8 degress unless on 101octane or higher!!!!!!!!
Do not buy 108octane booster in the quart, or pint size at the local kragen either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. It is not enough octane to stabilize 15gallons of fuel...... Adding octane booster is a waste of time and a huge myth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I appoligize to the forum for the extreme miscalculation and it won't happen again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Much Regards
B.V
Raine is right about everything..........
I had misconstrude the graph, for what it was...........
The graph basically states that this is the temp rating set for ALL oem distributors. All distributors being set at 0degress, impeading anything further than the 8degress is extremely dangerous. Infact anything after 4 degress becomes very risky.
If it weren't for my "botch platinums" that can handle a higher temp rating to "knock and ping" I would of severly blown the head to my ride, from pre ignition............
DO NOT follow my recomendations of 13degress!!!!!!!!!
This is prompted as extremely bad mechanical error and calculation and I would feel extremely bad if some one was to blow a gasket or damage the valve train even.........
Stay within the recomended 3 to 4degress as recomended, and DO NOT move to 8 degress unless on 101octane or higher!!!!!!!!
Do not buy 108octane booster in the quart, or pint size at the local kragen either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. It is not enough octane to stabilize 15gallons of fuel...... Adding octane booster is a waste of time and a huge myth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I appoligize to the forum for the extreme miscalculation and it won't happen again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Much Regards
B.V
02-04-2005, 02:29 PM
#66
Contributing Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Socal, 909/626
Posts: 6,587
Originally posted by rivneo1
Now all we need is the part # for those plugs ,so give it up?
Now all we need is the part # for those plugs ,so give it up?
part #5408-S30i (S13) heat range 6
You can probably get the same Iridium plug from Denso for a lot less than HKS. I bought HKS because I'm brand loyal (true fan of HKS right here since the old days).
05-21-2005, 02:39 PM
#67
Contributing Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 2,550
raine, are you sure you have your terminology correct? I always learned that advanging timing made it fire earlier, and retarding it made it fire later. I may be wrong, but it doesnt hurt to ask does it?
05-22-2005, 11:41 AM
#68
Contributing Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Socal, 909/626
Posts: 6,587
Originally posted by LA_phantom_240
raine, are you sure you have your terminology correct? I always learned that advanging timing made it fire earlier, and retarding it made it fire later. I may be wrong, but it doesnt hurt to ask does it?
raine, are you sure you have your terminology correct? I always learned that advanging timing made it fire earlier, and retarding it made it fire later. I may be wrong, but it doesnt hurt to ask does it?
It's right. the use of these words in this context are correct.
05-22-2005, 12:15 PM
#69
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 2,550
okay, thats what i thought it was... juse reading how people explain it makes me confus-ed.
On another note... if you ever need a distributor cap, dont buy it from autozone... they suck... the screws are small and long and have a habit of falling out when you go to remove the cap... buy one with the screws that dont come out, like OEM.
On another note... if you ever need a distributor cap, dont buy it from autozone... they suck... the screws are small and long and have a habit of falling out when you go to remove the cap... buy one with the screws that dont come out, like OEM.
05-22-2005, 02:09 PM
#70
Contributing Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Socal, 909/626
Posts: 6,587
Originally posted by LA_phantom_240
okay, thats what i thought it was... juse reading how people explain it makes me confus-ed.
On another note... if you ever need a distributor cap, dont buy it from autozone... they suck... the screws are small and long and have a habit of falling out when you go to remove the cap... buy one with the screws that dont come out, like OEM.
okay, thats what i thought it was... juse reading how people explain it makes me confus-ed.
On another note... if you ever need a distributor cap, dont buy it from autozone... they suck... the screws are small and long and have a habit of falling out when you go to remove the cap... buy one with the screws that dont come out, like OEM.
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