Don't Post Untill you read KA-t Basic's
04-10-2007 | 05:08 AM
#1
Don't Post Until you Read KA-T Basic's
Original poster:veilside180sx-ka-t.org
Note: You don't have to follow these exact setups, these are just examples
These are the Prerequisites to building a DOHC Turbo. Together we will go through typical setups from mild to extreme to reach the power goals you desire. These are lists of typically used items that are easily attainable by the average person. All setups should have the Air to Fuel Ratio verified on a dyno with wideband or at very least on a track using an in-car wideband setup (NO watching the standard O2 signal and calling it good). If your using pump gas and seeing air to fuel ratios more lean than 11.8:1-12:1, some rethinking on the tuning/fuel setup will be needed. A narrowband gauge(typical A/F gauge from Autometer for instance) is not complex enough to be a real indication of the ratios inside your combustion chamber.
Very Mild Build: around 180 rwhp
Turbo Manifold
Blow Off Valve
Turbo (T25)
Downpipe 2.5" is perfectly fine
Pipe to connect turbo to throttle body
Fuel Control:
Back timing off 2-3 degrees
FMU (not recommended, but doable) Raises fuel pressure per boost to make injectors flow more than normal.
SR 370cc Injectors. These can be found at places found at the bottom)
Apexi SAFC2
Back off base timing at dizzy
Mild power adder, say you want around 200 rwhp.
Turbo Manifold
Blow Off Valve
Small Intercooler (potentially get away with a side mount)
Turbo T25/T28/14B, etc. Smaller T2 setups. Usually will be internally wastegated.
Downpipe 2.5" is perfectly fine
Replacing the Exhaust is starting to be very necessary at this stage, so I would start to shop for that as well.
Fuel Control
SR 370cc Injectors
Apexi SAFC2
Back off base timing at dizzy
Average: 300 rwhp to 350 rwhp
you have to start to expect a little more lag. This is about the perfect "street car" limit. No race gas, just good honest street car fun that is fully capable of bring home a 12 second timeslip on a good run.
Turbo Manifold
T3/T04E .50 Trim compressor, .60 trim compressor housing / Stg 3 (aka TA31) turbine wheel, .48 to .63 A/R exhaust housing. Internal wastegate optional but not recommended.
Downpipe can still be 2.5", but this is as far as I would want to push that.
Front Mount Intercooler (FMIC) It's time to upgrade to a larger front mount as the larger will push more air than the smaller sidemount can cool.
Fuel Control
550cc Injectors
SAFC2 to control your fuel injectors, along with the stock ecu.
MSD BTM At this stage I would be running the BTM to control timing retard.
Reflashed ECU-This can be a DIY thing with Megasquirt Tuning or a JWT.
Z32/N60 Maf is required, as the stock Maf stops being able to read at around 260 rwhp.
Wideband O2 Sensor should be installed for tuning.
Block Internals
This is where I would start to consider it necessary to replace you pistons.
Above Average: 350 rwhp to 425 rwhp
Turbo Manifold
Blow Off Valve
T3/T04E 50 Trim .48/.63 or slightly larger turbo, this is where I would start to make the switch up to an external wastegate. You have the option to reroute it back into the exhaust, or merely "dump" it out into the open. "Dump" is usually a mini exhaust in the form of 1.5" piping routed out to the open.
FMIC Larger is starting to be necessary. Typical for setups from here on, are 12"x24"x3" for the core.
Downpipe 3", at this point I would switch to the larger downpipe. You can probably get away with it at 2.5", but it will be causing a little bit of backpressure. Moving to 3" piping as quickly as possible is what you want though. Usually it is necessary to have the first bend 2.5" to clear the steering shaft though.
Exhaust 3"
Block Internals
At this stage you'll want to "build" or fortify your block to better handle boost. Previous to this you can walk the line, but here and forward I find it necessary to do so.
Forged Rods
Forged Pistons
Stock Crank
Plus your typical rebuild items.
Fuel Control
Standalone fuel management is recommended at this stage in the game and is absolutely necessary at the next. These allow you control not only very large injectors, but the tuner to have complete control over both timing and fuel.
720cc Injectors.
Wideband O2 Sensor is necessary for tuning.
Wild Build: 425 rwhp to 600 rwhp
Lag is obviously going to be much more apparent, full boost isn't going to happen until around 4000-5000 rpms or so. Once spooled it will pull very hard.
Turbo Manifold
Turbo T3/T61/SC61 or GT35R seem to be the typical turbo's in the area. External Wastegate is your only option that should be considered.
Blow Off Valve You'll want a good performing more expensive blow off valve to alleviate reverted air when the throttle body closes from pushing against the compressor wheel.
FMIC the 24"x12"x3" Core's are still effective in this range.
Downpipe 3" is still capable of handling these power levels
Exhaust 3" or larger
Fuel Control
720cc-1600cc Injectors
Standalone Fuel Management
Recommended to switch to Map instead of Maf for reading airflow.
Wideband 02 Sensor installed and wired into standalone for adjustments and monitoring.
Dyno tuning is very valuable.
Block Internals
Along with the previously mentioned internals I would add these to the list
Cams
Build your head as well
Valve Springs
Valve Retainers
ARP Head/Main Studs
Cometic Headgasket or similar
Picture of parts
Feed
Oil Lines (Picture of good return location)
(Without A/C)
(With A/C) note: you will have to grind the bracket to make space for the fitting.
Your return should be as straight up and down as possible like so
Fuel Pump:
The stock pump is decent but not intended for such use. For Walbro 255's being as cheap as they are, anyone turboing their vehicle should upgrade prior to turboing.
Boost gauge
Turbo Manifold
Log ( KA24DE )
Log ( KA24e)
Tubular
BOV
V-band style
Wastegates ( not needed if you are running a low boost internally gated setup)
standard two bolt flange 38/44mm
Block Internals
Pistons: Can be accomplished one of two ways, by purchasing ones that are made for the E with their intended compression ratio. The other is to use DE pistons and subtract a full compression point to equal the difference between the E and DE head. (ie 9:1 DE pistons will be 8:1 in an E)
Arias 8.8:1(DE)
Wiseco 9:1(DE)
JE 8.5:1
Ross 8.5:1(DE)
CP 9:1(DE)
Supertech 9:1
ka24e/ka24de
Crank Bearings
Headgasket & ARP head studs
ValveTrain
Cams
Injectors
Typical Injectors Used on DOHC
SR (370-480cc stock) Upgrade Injectors are available in various sizes between 550cc-720cc as side feed, anything larger usually you'll want to switch to a top feed fuel rail and injector combination.
Note: You don't have to follow these exact setups, these are just examples
These are the Prerequisites to building a DOHC Turbo. Together we will go through typical setups from mild to extreme to reach the power goals you desire. These are lists of typically used items that are easily attainable by the average person. All setups should have the Air to Fuel Ratio verified on a dyno with wideband or at very least on a track using an in-car wideband setup (NO watching the standard O2 signal and calling it good). If your using pump gas and seeing air to fuel ratios more lean than 11.8:1-12:1, some rethinking on the tuning/fuel setup will be needed. A narrowband gauge(typical A/F gauge from Autometer for instance) is not complex enough to be a real indication of the ratios inside your combustion chamber.
Very Mild Build: around 180 rwhp
Turbo Manifold
Blow Off Valve
Turbo (T25)
Downpipe 2.5" is perfectly fine
Pipe to connect turbo to throttle body
Fuel Control:
Back timing off 2-3 degrees
FMU (not recommended, but doable) Raises fuel pressure per boost to make injectors flow more than normal.
SR 370cc Injectors. These can be found at places found at the bottom)
Apexi SAFC2
Back off base timing at dizzy
Mild power adder, say you want around 200 rwhp.
Turbo Manifold
Blow Off Valve
Small Intercooler (potentially get away with a side mount)
Turbo T25/T28/14B, etc. Smaller T2 setups. Usually will be internally wastegated.
Downpipe 2.5" is perfectly fine
Replacing the Exhaust is starting to be very necessary at this stage, so I would start to shop for that as well.
Fuel Control
SR 370cc Injectors
Apexi SAFC2
Back off base timing at dizzy
Average: 300 rwhp to 350 rwhp
you have to start to expect a little more lag. This is about the perfect "street car" limit. No race gas, just good honest street car fun that is fully capable of bring home a 12 second timeslip on a good run.
Turbo Manifold
T3/T04E .50 Trim compressor, .60 trim compressor housing / Stg 3 (aka TA31) turbine wheel, .48 to .63 A/R exhaust housing. Internal wastegate optional but not recommended.
Downpipe can still be 2.5", but this is as far as I would want to push that.
Front Mount Intercooler (FMIC) It's time to upgrade to a larger front mount as the larger will push more air than the smaller sidemount can cool.
Fuel Control
550cc Injectors
SAFC2 to control your fuel injectors, along with the stock ecu.
MSD BTM At this stage I would be running the BTM to control timing retard.
Reflashed ECU-This can be a DIY thing with Megasquirt Tuning or a JWT.
Z32/N60 Maf is required, as the stock Maf stops being able to read at around 260 rwhp.
Wideband O2 Sensor should be installed for tuning.
Block Internals
This is where I would start to consider it necessary to replace you pistons.
Above Average: 350 rwhp to 425 rwhp
Turbo Manifold
Blow Off Valve
T3/T04E 50 Trim .48/.63 or slightly larger turbo, this is where I would start to make the switch up to an external wastegate. You have the option to reroute it back into the exhaust, or merely "dump" it out into the open. "Dump" is usually a mini exhaust in the form of 1.5" piping routed out to the open.
FMIC Larger is starting to be necessary. Typical for setups from here on, are 12"x24"x3" for the core.
Downpipe 3", at this point I would switch to the larger downpipe. You can probably get away with it at 2.5", but it will be causing a little bit of backpressure. Moving to 3" piping as quickly as possible is what you want though. Usually it is necessary to have the first bend 2.5" to clear the steering shaft though.
Exhaust 3"
Block Internals
At this stage you'll want to "build" or fortify your block to better handle boost. Previous to this you can walk the line, but here and forward I find it necessary to do so.
Forged Rods
Forged Pistons
Stock Crank
Plus your typical rebuild items.
Fuel Control
Standalone fuel management is recommended at this stage in the game and is absolutely necessary at the next. These allow you control not only very large injectors, but the tuner to have complete control over both timing and fuel.
720cc Injectors.
Wideband O2 Sensor is necessary for tuning.
Wild Build: 425 rwhp to 600 rwhp
Lag is obviously going to be much more apparent, full boost isn't going to happen until around 4000-5000 rpms or so. Once spooled it will pull very hard.
Turbo Manifold
Turbo T3/T61/SC61 or GT35R seem to be the typical turbo's in the area. External Wastegate is your only option that should be considered.
Blow Off Valve You'll want a good performing more expensive blow off valve to alleviate reverted air when the throttle body closes from pushing against the compressor wheel.
FMIC the 24"x12"x3" Core's are still effective in this range.
Downpipe 3" is still capable of handling these power levels
Exhaust 3" or larger
Fuel Control
720cc-1600cc Injectors
Standalone Fuel Management
Recommended to switch to Map instead of Maf for reading airflow.
Wideband 02 Sensor installed and wired into standalone for adjustments and monitoring.
Dyno tuning is very valuable.
Block Internals
Along with the previously mentioned internals I would add these to the list
Cams
Build your head as well
Valve Springs
Valve Retainers
ARP Head/Main Studs
Cometic Headgasket or similar
Picture of parts
Feed
Oil Lines (Picture of good return location)
(Without A/C)
(With A/C) note: you will have to grind the bracket to make space for the fitting.
Your return should be as straight up and down as possible like so
Fuel Pump:
The stock pump is decent but not intended for such use. For Walbro 255's being as cheap as they are, anyone turboing their vehicle should upgrade prior to turboing.
Boost gauge
Turbo Manifold
Log ( KA24DE )
Log ( KA24e)
Tubular
BOV
V-band style
Wastegates ( not needed if you are running a low boost internally gated setup)
standard two bolt flange 38/44mm
Block Internals
Pistons: Can be accomplished one of two ways, by purchasing ones that are made for the E with their intended compression ratio. The other is to use DE pistons and subtract a full compression point to equal the difference between the E and DE head. (ie 9:1 DE pistons will be 8:1 in an E)
Arias 8.8:1(DE)
Wiseco 9:1(DE)
JE 8.5:1
Ross 8.5:1(DE)
CP 9:1(DE)
Supertech 9:1
ka24e/ka24de
Crank Bearings
Headgasket & ARP head studs
ValveTrain
Cams
Injectors
Typical Injectors Used on DOHC
SR (370-480cc stock) Upgrade Injectors are available in various sizes between 550cc-720cc as side feed, anything larger usually you'll want to switch to a top feed fuel rail and injector combination.
Last edited by Biggamehit; 02-28-2009 at 11:59 PM.
04-10-2007 | 04:17 PM
#2
Contributing Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,580
From: Bossier,LA
This is BigGameHit needed Additional Space
other options
(WDRacing)
Side Feed
Engine Style Size Impedance* Years / Models
Nissan KA24DE Side feed 270cc High S13/S14
Nissan SR20DET Side feed 370cc High S13/S14
Nissan SR20DET Side feed 480cc High S15
Nissan RB25DET Side feed 370cc High R33/R34
Nissan VG30DETT Side feed 370cc High Z32
Infiniti VH45DE Side feed 370cc High All Years
NOTE: 90 - 94 Z32 uses a style of injector that is non-compatable with KA fuel rails (still sidefeed), while 95 - 96 uses the same injector as the RB25DET and SR20DET, etc.
Mazda FD Side feed 550cc High 93-98
Mazda FD Side feed 850cc High 93-98
Mazda 20B Side feed 550cc High JDM Mazda Cosmo?
Subaru JDM STi Side feed 550cc (565cc?) High pre 99
Subaru STi Side feed 565cc High 03+
Toyota 7M-GTE Side feed 430cc (440cc?) Low Supra mk3 turbo
Toyota 2JZ-GTE Side feed 550cc Low Supra mk4 turbo
Toyota 3S-GTE Side feed 430cc (440cc?) Low MR2, 91+
Toyota 4A-GZE Side feed? 365cc Low MR2, MK1
Toyota Celica GTS Side feed? 310cc High 2000+
Toyota JDM 1JZ-GTE Side feed 430cc Low Chaser, Supra mk3?
Toyota JDM 2JZ-GTE Side feed 430cc High?* Supra mk4 turbo
Toyota JDM 7M-GTE Side feed 430cc Low Supra mk3 turbo
Injector Resistors (To alter low impedance to work with a high impedance ecu)
single
Box
( located at jyard in many obd1 hondas and 1g DSMs)
--------------------------
VERY nice write up, this should stop the basic unecessary questions.
hit up the advanced tech on kat also. or write your own from your engenious knowledge mr. jackson. what ever floats ur boat
other options
(WDRacing)
Side Feed
Engine Style Size Impedance* Years / Models
Nissan KA24DE Side feed 270cc High S13/S14
Nissan SR20DET Side feed 370cc High S13/S14
Nissan SR20DET Side feed 480cc High S15
Nissan RB25DET Side feed 370cc High R33/R34
Nissan VG30DETT Side feed 370cc High Z32
Infiniti VH45DE Side feed 370cc High All Years
NOTE: 90 - 94 Z32 uses a style of injector that is non-compatable with KA fuel rails (still sidefeed), while 95 - 96 uses the same injector as the RB25DET and SR20DET, etc.
Mazda FD Side feed 550cc High 93-98
Mazda FD Side feed 850cc High 93-98
Mazda 20B Side feed 550cc High JDM Mazda Cosmo?
Subaru JDM STi Side feed 550cc (565cc?) High pre 99
Subaru STi Side feed 565cc High 03+
Toyota 7M-GTE Side feed 430cc (440cc?) Low Supra mk3 turbo
Toyota 2JZ-GTE Side feed 550cc Low Supra mk4 turbo
Toyota 3S-GTE Side feed 430cc (440cc?) Low MR2, 91+
Toyota 4A-GZE Side feed? 365cc Low MR2, MK1
Toyota Celica GTS Side feed? 310cc High 2000+
Toyota JDM 1JZ-GTE Side feed 430cc Low Chaser, Supra mk3?
Toyota JDM 2JZ-GTE Side feed 430cc High?* Supra mk4 turbo
Toyota JDM 7M-GTE Side feed 430cc Low Supra mk3 turbo
Injector Resistors (To alter low impedance to work with a high impedance ecu)
single
Box
( located at jyard in many obd1 hondas and 1g DSMs)
--------------------------
VERY nice write up, this should stop the basic unecessary questions.
hit up the advanced tech on kat also. or write your own from your engenious knowledge mr. jackson. what ever floats ur boat
Last edited by Biggamehit; 12-02-2008 at 10:49 PM.
04-10-2007 | 08:31 PM
#3
Bigg on the very mild build (180WHP) why isn't base timing retarded as well? I didn't see it added to the list.
You should also make a note that on the mild builds, that an N60 MAF can be added and actually add a few more donkey's to the wheel HP. N60 uses a larger scale than the stock KA MAF.
You should also make a note that on the mild builds, that an N60 MAF can be added and actually add a few more donkey's to the wheel HP. N60 uses a larger scale than the stock KA MAF.
04-10-2007 | 11:53 PM
#4
sure thing sorry man i just got back in and im very pissed about my turbo install ( not) tonight.... pics in another thread...
i didn't write that stuff i just added a few things here and there. I have to finish it up later today
i didn't write that stuff i just added a few things here and there. I have to finish it up later today
04-24-2007 | 05:04 AM
#5
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 72
From: Long Beach, so cal
i just recently thought about KA_t on my 97 s14 not too long ago and have some questions about legalities and stuff... i want to boost my car but not have to go through legal issues and smog... would a greddy turbo kit be good? and would the kit include everything i need for the set up or are there still parts that need upgrading?... has anyone used a greddy kit and would like to share opinions ?...
07-12-2007 | 12:27 AM
#8
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 62
From: medicine hat alberta
Average: 300 rwhp to 350 rwhp
you have to start to expect a little more lag. This is about the perfect "street car" limit. No race gas, just good honest street car fun that is fully capable of bring home a 12 second timeslip on a good run.
Turbo Manifold
T3/T04E .50 Trim compressor, .60 trim compressor housing / Stg 3 (aka TA31) turbine wheel, .48 to .63 A/R exhaust housing. Internal wastegate optional but not recommended.
Downpipe can still be 2.5", but this is as far as I would want to push that.
Front Mount Intercooler (FMIC) It's time to upgrade to a larger front mount as the larger will push more air than the smaller sidemount can cool.
Fuel Control
550cc Injectors
SAFC2 to control your fuel injectors, along with the stock ecu.
MSD BTM At this stage I would be running the BTM to control timing retard.
Reflashed ECU-This can be a DIY thing with Megasquirt Tuning or a JWT.
Z32/N60 Maf is required, as the stock Maf stops being able to read at around 260 rwhp.
Wideband O2 Sensor should be installed for tuning.
Block Internals
This is where I would start to consider it necessary to replace you pistons.
you have to start to expect a little more lag. This is about the perfect "street car" limit. No race gas, just good honest street car fun that is fully capable of bring home a 12 second timeslip on a good run.
Turbo Manifold
T3/T04E .50 Trim compressor, .60 trim compressor housing / Stg 3 (aka TA31) turbine wheel, .48 to .63 A/R exhaust housing. Internal wastegate optional but not recommended.
Downpipe can still be 2.5", but this is as far as I would want to push that.
Front Mount Intercooler (FMIC) It's time to upgrade to a larger front mount as the larger will push more air than the smaller sidemount can cool.
Fuel Control
550cc Injectors
SAFC2 to control your fuel injectors, along with the stock ecu.
MSD BTM At this stage I would be running the BTM to control timing retard.
Reflashed ECU-This can be a DIY thing with Megasquirt Tuning or a JWT.
Z32/N60 Maf is required, as the stock Maf stops being able to read at around 260 rwhp.
Wideband O2 Sensor should be installed for tuning.
Block Internals
This is where I would start to consider it necessary to replace you pistons.
07-12-2007 | 07:22 AM
#9
yea you don't need to change pistons, but if you plan on banging on the motor alot, you may want to do it at about this stage. if you plan on just hitting the strip every once in while with a good tune you will be fine
a guy on ka-t.org name corey has a 500hp KA and his block is completely stock. he just has a great tune
a guy on ka-t.org name corey has a 500hp KA and his block is completely stock. he just has a great tune
07-12-2007 | 05:24 PM
#11
im not understanding what you are saying..
basically your fuel and air mixture and spark have to be on the same page or even a built motor will blow.
more air needs more fuel which needs accurate spark
basically your fuel and air mixture and spark have to be on the same page or even a built motor will blow.
more air needs more fuel which needs accurate spark
07-12-2007 | 11:19 PM
#12
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 62
From: medicine hat alberta
12-12-2008 | 12:54 AM
#13
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 221
From: Madison, Wisconsin
ok so i no this is an old thread but i was just wondering,
what the hell is that BOX! from the obd1 hondas, iv asked many ppl an noone seems to know, and iv looked through many things and cant seem to come up with anything, what does it doooooo??
what the hell is that BOX! from the obd1 hondas, iv asked many ppl an noone seems to know, and iv looked through many things and cant seem to come up with anything, what does it doooooo??
12-12-2008 | 01:58 AM
#14
This thread was made to assist and keep post down, you are fine brother
that box contains resistors that allows you to run Low impedance ( Peak & Hold ) injectors on the 240 which features Hi impedance injectors ( Saturated) when it is installed inline with the stock resistor wiring.
ps
unless you plan on running an injector over 550cc its no concern to you.
that box contains resistors that allows you to run Low impedance ( Peak & Hold ) injectors on the 240 which features Hi impedance injectors ( Saturated) when it is installed inline with the stock resistor wiring.
ps
unless you plan on running an injector over 550cc its no concern to you.
