Octane
11-02-2003, 03:29 AM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 248
i dunno... every time i use 91, my car just doesn't feel right when i drive it... no knocking or anything but it just doesn't drive the same.... 87 just drives better for some reason, and with SUPER 104+ octane booster it drives way better...
then again ever since i did start going into the 4k-5k region more frequently, its been driving a little smoother... oh well
then again ever since i did start going into the 4k-5k region more frequently, its been driving a little smoother... oh well
11-03-2003, 11:14 AM
#34
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: pa
Posts: 14
Originally posted by WingsNThangs
Thanks for the heads up, but no one in this thread has explained why (mechanically, chemically) exactly why higher octane is better. No one has provided first-hand evidence and knowledge, but rather "This is what I've been told" and other such second-hand knowledge. BTW, my car has never had knocking problems in my ownership, and I have never put in anything but 87 gas and octane booster (occasionally) in it.
Granted, 91 octane is probably better, but I'm not too sure if the difference in quality is warranted by the difference in price. And is there anything that says 87 can harm the 240SX engine?
My father, a PhD'd mechanical and aerospace engineer, approves of the 87 gas I use in my car. I think the only advice I would take above his is that of an independent Nissan specialist. Or another mechanical/chemical engineer. Any one out there fall under one of those categories? What is your take on this?
The FWD Altima, RWD XTerra, and RWD Frontier uses KA24DE engine, just as the 240SX does. But these cars are recommended regular gas by the government. However, the federal government (www.fueleconomy.gov) states that the 240SX should use premium. Why is that? How much do you trust Uncle Sam and his statistics?
And I know there's always some member who responds with "It's your car, your wallet, and you can put whatever gas you want because I'm an ******* and im indifferent". To those guys, don't bother. I'm sure many people are interested in the issues I have raised as well.
Thanks for the heads up, but no one in this thread has explained why (mechanically, chemically) exactly why higher octane is better. No one has provided first-hand evidence and knowledge, but rather "This is what I've been told" and other such second-hand knowledge. BTW, my car has never had knocking problems in my ownership, and I have never put in anything but 87 gas and octane booster (occasionally) in it.
Granted, 91 octane is probably better, but I'm not too sure if the difference in quality is warranted by the difference in price. And is there anything that says 87 can harm the 240SX engine?
My father, a PhD'd mechanical and aerospace engineer, approves of the 87 gas I use in my car. I think the only advice I would take above his is that of an independent Nissan specialist. Or another mechanical/chemical engineer. Any one out there fall under one of those categories? What is your take on this?
The FWD Altima, RWD XTerra, and RWD Frontier uses KA24DE engine, just as the 240SX does. But these cars are recommended regular gas by the government. However, the federal government (www.fueleconomy.gov) states that the 240SX should use premium. Why is that? How much do you trust Uncle Sam and his statistics?
And I know there's always some member who responds with "It's your car, your wallet, and you can put whatever gas you want because I'm an ******* and im indifferent". To those guys, don't bother. I'm sure many people are interested in the issues I have raised as well.
um..did u not read my post?
and u dont have knocking issues cause our car has a knock sensor that allows the computer to retard the timing, so that u can run that octane...and why are u runnin octane booster? thats just retarded...put higher octane gas in at the pump instead of adding that ****...
Last edited by 240driver39; 11-03-2003 at 11:18 AM.
11-03-2003, 11:49 AM
#35
Contributing Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Concord, NH
Posts: 1,854
Originally posted by WingsNThangs
Thanks for the heads up, but no one in this thread has explained why (mechanically, chemically) exactly why higher octane is better. No one has provided first-hand evidence and knowledge, but rather "This is what I've been told" and other such second-hand knowledge. BTW, my car has never had knocking problems in my ownership, and I have never put in anything but 87 gas and octane booster (occasionally) in it.
Granted, 91 octane is probably better, but I'm not too sure if the difference in quality is warranted by the difference in price. And is there anything that says 87 can harm the 240SX engine?
My father, a PhD'd mechanical and aerospace engineer, approves of the 87 gas I use in my car. I think the only advice I would take above his is that of an independent Nissan specialist. Or another mechanical/chemical engineer. Any one out there fall under one of those categories? What is your take on this?
The FWD Altima, RWD XTerra, and RWD Frontier uses KA24DE engine, just as the 240SX does. But these cars are recommended regular gas by the government. However, the federal government (www.fueleconomy.gov) states that the 240SX should use premium. Why is that? How much do you trust Uncle Sam and his statistics?
And I know there's always some member who responds with "It's your car, your wallet, and you can put whatever gas you want because I'm an ******* and im indifferent". To those guys, don't bother. I'm sure many people are interested in the issues I have raised as well.
Thanks for the heads up, but no one in this thread has explained why (mechanically, chemically) exactly why higher octane is better. No one has provided first-hand evidence and knowledge, but rather "This is what I've been told" and other such second-hand knowledge. BTW, my car has never had knocking problems in my ownership, and I have never put in anything but 87 gas and octane booster (occasionally) in it.
Granted, 91 octane is probably better, but I'm not too sure if the difference in quality is warranted by the difference in price. And is there anything that says 87 can harm the 240SX engine?
My father, a PhD'd mechanical and aerospace engineer, approves of the 87 gas I use in my car. I think the only advice I would take above his is that of an independent Nissan specialist. Or another mechanical/chemical engineer. Any one out there fall under one of those categories? What is your take on this?
The FWD Altima, RWD XTerra, and RWD Frontier uses KA24DE engine, just as the 240SX does. But these cars are recommended regular gas by the government. However, the federal government (www.fueleconomy.gov) states that the 240SX should use premium. Why is that? How much do you trust Uncle Sam and his statistics?
And I know there's always some member who responds with "It's your car, your wallet, and you can put whatever gas you want because I'm an ******* and im indifferent". To those guys, don't bother. I'm sure many people are interested in the issues I have raised as well.
It's not just uncle sam, look at every clue showing higher gas. Are you an empiricist? burn some 87, and take some notes of how the engine feels, mileage, and the heat, as well as the acceleration. Then fill her up on 91 and tell me it's not better.
Of course no one is going to say 87 can hurt the KA engine, we're not arguing that, we are however saying that because it's the entry level gas it CAN cause knocking and is the worst gas for your car. and if thats fine with you, then thats cool. Bottom line, 89+ burns easier, more effecient and at a lower temp. Don't believe me? call my uncle, he's a full time mechanic or anyone else that knows about gas.
Dr.
11-03-2003, 02:53 PM
#36
Contributing Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Socal, 909/626
Posts: 6,587
Originally posted by WingsNThangs
My father, a PhD'd mechanical and aerospace engineer, approves of the 87 gas I use in my car. I think the only advice I would take above his is that of an independent Nissan specialist. Or another mechanical/chemical engineer. Any one out there fall under one of those categories? What is your take on this?
The FWD Altima, RWD XTerra, and RWD Frontier uses KA24DE engine, just as the 240SX does. But these cars are recommended regular gas by the government. However, the federal government (www.fueleconomy.gov) states that the 240SX should use premium. Why is that? How much do you trust Uncle Sam and his statistics?
And I know there's always some member who responds with "It's your car, your wallet, and you can put whatever gas you want because I'm an ******* and im indifferent". To those guys, don't bother. I'm sure many people are interested in the issues I have raised as well.
My father, a PhD'd mechanical and aerospace engineer, approves of the 87 gas I use in my car. I think the only advice I would take above his is that of an independent Nissan specialist. Or another mechanical/chemical engineer. Any one out there fall under one of those categories? What is your take on this?
The FWD Altima, RWD XTerra, and RWD Frontier uses KA24DE engine, just as the 240SX does. But these cars are recommended regular gas by the government. However, the federal government (www.fueleconomy.gov) states that the 240SX should use premium. Why is that? How much do you trust Uncle Sam and his statistics?
And I know there's always some member who responds with "It's your car, your wallet, and you can put whatever gas you want because I'm an ******* and im indifferent". To those guys, don't bother. I'm sure many people are interested in the issues I have raised as well.
Also, read what you typed - the government "recommends" 87 or 91. I'll recommend 89 just for kicks. Does that mean it's set in stone? Nope, it's just a recommendation.
Octane is mainly about preventing knock because of how the fuel burns differently between octane levels. It's not so much about more power or more mileage. That misconception is based on the fact that higher octane costs more (thus, if it costs more it 'must' be better) and lower octane gets you more fuel per dollar (more gas 'must' equal more mileage). 1 gallon of 87 has generally the same potential for making a set amount of power as does a gallon of 91. So why have different grades at the gas station?
Additives can be one reason. Some gas has more cleaning agents and detergents than others. "Techron" is an example. But switching octanes might not be as significant as switching gasoline companies. Chevron's 91 isn't the same as 76's 91. Gas companies have different standards as to which is "premium" for them, and which is "regular".
Another reason which most of us here might know is compression. Higher compression cars need higher octane because of the speed and rate at which higher octane burns compared to lower octane.
And sorry to say this, but no matter what anyone says - in the end it is your car and your wallet, as well as what you believe in and what you don't. If you have faith in your dad's opinion, than good for you. Keep on truckin' on 87 octane. No one in this thread is stopping you. It's all opinion or relayed fact. I personally prefer premium octane for all my cars. And I generally am not an ******* unless someone blindly assumes that I am.
If you want to get super technical, I'd say go research at a library - not Google.com. I got most of my information from my brother and my neighbor - but before you say "that's not a library blah blah blah" let me inform you that my brother is a chemical engineer working out of USC. My neighbor designs rocket boosters and low-level satellites for NASA. Credible enough?
11-03-2003, 04:14 PM
#37
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Suwanee, GA
Posts: 247
Credible enough for me!!!!
Like I said before, when I first got my 240, it had been using 87 for as long as the guy before me ad it (I think 5 years). I changed it to 93 after about a week or two and good honestly tell a difference. So........moral of this thread....do whatever the **** you want to with your money. But I believe that most, and I do say MOST 240 owners fill theirs with something other than 87.
Like I said before, when I first got my 240, it had been using 87 for as long as the guy before me ad it (I think 5 years). I changed it to 93 after about a week or two and good honestly tell a difference. So........moral of this thread....do whatever the **** you want to with your money. But I believe that most, and I do say MOST 240 owners fill theirs with something other than 87.
11-03-2003, 04:20 PM
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 80
More or less, just the responses I've been looking for. Thanks guys, Dr. and |2aine, i learn new things all the time. And yes, credible enough. Sorry I didnt read your post more carefully, 240driver39.
I didnt mean to come off as elitist or anything, just trying to challenge the community in a healthy debate, something more of substance than "this is what ive been told and im gonna pass off this info blindly", and at the same time search for answers. This is another win for the archives and search engine.
I'm glad no one turned this thing into some flame war, because as we all know, members can get pretty personal with the scribblings of another's post.
I didnt mean to come off as elitist or anything, just trying to challenge the community in a healthy debate, something more of substance than "this is what ive been told and im gonna pass off this info blindly", and at the same time search for answers. This is another win for the archives and search engine.
I'm glad no one turned this thing into some flame war, because as we all know, members can get pretty personal with the scribblings of another's post.
Last edited by WingsNThangs; 11-03-2003 at 04:24 PM.
11-03-2003, 07:04 PM
#40
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 248
Originally posted by 240driver39
um..did u not read my post?
and u dont have knocking issues cause our car has a knock sensor that allows the computer to retard the timing, so that u can run that octane...and why are u runnin octane booster? thats just retarded...put higher octane gas in at the pump instead of adding that ****...
um..did u not read my post?
and u dont have knocking issues cause our car has a knock sensor that allows the computer to retard the timing, so that u can run that octane...and why are u runnin octane booster? thats just retarded...put higher octane gas in at the pump instead of adding that ****...
having that said... its obvious you didn't read what kind of vehicle i was putting this fuel into in the first place... 81 corolla... no turbo, 3TC engine... hell it doesn't even HAVE an ECU... so its very unlikely it has a "knock sensor"
i starting using octane booster as a test... 87 (decent)... 91 (not too good)... 87+super 104+ (way better).... then 91+super 104+ (not very good either)... 87 and 87 plus octane booster ran better for me... you've never seen my car, i highly doubt you've even driven a car with a 3TC engine... so there is in no way you have the right to get off using assumptions such as your's to think you know everything... jackass...
11-03-2003, 07:19 PM
#41
Contributing Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Concord, NH
Posts: 1,854
there was nothing wrong with your last post, until you said jackass. That had no value towards your point, it actualy took away from it. Now you might have started a flaming war, instead of a productive one.
Dr.
Dr.
11-03-2003, 07:20 PM
#42
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 118
gas is gas...
octane is just how clean the gas is... higher octane actually have cleaning agents in it... no hp, no burning differnt... well, maybe the cleaning agents might ahve something to do with it...
the only differnce to 87 to 89... 89 has been refined more...
want more hp from gas... jet fuel
2/3 gas 1/3 airplane fuel... is the s***...
octane is just how clean the gas is... higher octane actually have cleaning agents in it... no hp, no burning differnt... well, maybe the cleaning agents might ahve something to do with it...
the only differnce to 87 to 89... 89 has been refined more...
want more hp from gas... jet fuel
2/3 gas 1/3 airplane fuel... is the s***...
11-04-2003, 12:07 AM
#43
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 13
wow, this board is lacking in the knowledge of octane and how it applies to your car. now...this maybe my first post at club240sx but i am avid poster at the other 240 forums (mainly freshalloy)
first of all, if your manual says to use 87 and you use 91, you are THROWING AWAY YOUR MONEY! your ecu is tuned to use 87 and once you put in 91, it senses that the octane is high enough and operates normally. YOU WILL NOT GET PERFORMANCE BENEFIT! YOUR ECU DOES NOT RECOGNIZE IT!
likewise, if your 240 is designed for 91, (like my s14) and you are cheap and you put in 87 or 89, have fun with the pinging and engine knock. You maybe can not feel it but its happening and your performance will suffer
the gist of this post is that use the octane that is recomended on the manual. You use any higher and you are throwing away. Dont think that because your octane is higher, you are getting more hp because you are DEFINITELY NOT! this topic has been discussed to death over at freshalloy and nico and im surprised none of you (at least those who have posted) have posted the correct answer
if you dont believe me, i can dig up the threads on this on the other forums
first of all, if your manual says to use 87 and you use 91, you are THROWING AWAY YOUR MONEY! your ecu is tuned to use 87 and once you put in 91, it senses that the octane is high enough and operates normally. YOU WILL NOT GET PERFORMANCE BENEFIT! YOUR ECU DOES NOT RECOGNIZE IT!
likewise, if your 240 is designed for 91, (like my s14) and you are cheap and you put in 87 or 89, have fun with the pinging and engine knock. You maybe can not feel it but its happening and your performance will suffer
the gist of this post is that use the octane that is recomended on the manual. You use any higher and you are throwing away. Dont think that because your octane is higher, you are getting more hp because you are DEFINITELY NOT! this topic has been discussed to death over at freshalloy and nico and im surprised none of you (at least those who have posted) have posted the correct answer
if you dont believe me, i can dig up the threads on this on the other forums
11-04-2003, 07:00 AM
#44
Contributing Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Concord, NH
Posts: 1,854
Originally posted by JuJuBeee
wow, this board is lacking in the knowledge of octane and how it applies to your car. now...this maybe my first post at club240sx but i am avid poster at the other 240 forums (mainly freshalloy)
first of all, if your manual says to use 87 and you use 91, you are THROWING AWAY YOUR MONEY! your ecu is tuned to use 87 and once you put in 91, it senses that the octane is high enough and operates normally. YOU WILL NOT GET PERFORMANCE BENEFIT! YOUR ECU DOES NOT RECOGNIZE IT!
likewise, if your 240 is designed for 91, (like my s14) and you are cheap and you put in 87 or 89, have fun with the pinging and engine knock. You maybe can not feel it but its happening and your performance will suffer
the gist of this post is that use the octane that is recomended on the manual. You use any higher and you are throwing away. Dont think that because your octane is higher, you are getting more hp because you are DEFINITELY NOT! this topic has been discussed to death over at freshalloy and nico and im surprised none of you (at least those who have posted) have posted the correct answer
if you dont believe me, i can dig up the threads on this on the other forums
wow, this board is lacking in the knowledge of octane and how it applies to your car. now...this maybe my first post at club240sx but i am avid poster at the other 240 forums (mainly freshalloy)
first of all, if your manual says to use 87 and you use 91, you are THROWING AWAY YOUR MONEY! your ecu is tuned to use 87 and once you put in 91, it senses that the octane is high enough and operates normally. YOU WILL NOT GET PERFORMANCE BENEFIT! YOUR ECU DOES NOT RECOGNIZE IT!
likewise, if your 240 is designed for 91, (like my s14) and you are cheap and you put in 87 or 89, have fun with the pinging and engine knock. You maybe can not feel it but its happening and your performance will suffer
the gist of this post is that use the octane that is recomended on the manual. You use any higher and you are throwing away. Dont think that because your octane is higher, you are getting more hp because you are DEFINITELY NOT! this topic has been discussed to death over at freshalloy and nico and im surprised none of you (at least those who have posted) have posted the correct answer
if you dont believe me, i can dig up the threads on this on the other forums
if you car is made for 87 and you're using 91, you can't tell me it doesn't help. Fuel burns better, bottom line. I'll try and look up some facts to prove it. Saying whatever your manual reccommends yo ushould use makes it sound like there is no difference between 87 and 91, and would not account why any car with a turbo needs at least 91.
Dr.
11-04-2003, 11:56 AM
#45
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 13
Originally posted by drnovascotia
I disgaree with you, but i'll look up the freshalloy posts and research it. no offense to NICO but their knowldge base and members aren't the most credible, whereas Freshalloy is overall damn knowledgeable.
if you car is made for 87 and you're using 91, you can't tell me it doesn't help. Fuel burns better, bottom line. I'll try and look up some facts to prove it. Saying whatever your manual reccommends yo ushould use makes it sound like there is no difference between 87 and 91, and would not account why any car with a turbo needs at least 91.
Dr.
I disgaree with you, but i'll look up the freshalloy posts and research it. no offense to NICO but their knowldge base and members aren't the most credible, whereas Freshalloy is overall damn knowledgeable.
if you car is made for 87 and you're using 91, you can't tell me it doesn't help. Fuel burns better, bottom line. I'll try and look up some facts to prove it. Saying whatever your manual reccommends yo ushould use makes it sound like there is no difference between 87 and 91, and would not account why any car with a turbo needs at least 91.
Dr.
91 fuel does NOT burn better, it burns slower
and everything im talking about is not regarding turbo engines, that is a whole different category
